Seiko – The ExhaustNotes Blog

A Tale of Two Two-Tone GMTs

By Joe Berk

Some time ago, we wrote a blog comparing the Casio Marlin and Rolex Sea Dweller dive watches. This one is similar; it compares my nearly 40-year-old two-tone Rolex GMT II to a recently-released Seiko two-tone GMT.

Two GMT watches: The Rolex GMT Master II (left) and the Seiko two-tone GMT (right). in the photos here, the Rolex has a much richer appearance; in real life, the Seiko looks just as good.

A close up of my Rolex GMT Master II, purchased new in 1986 when I was still a yuppie. Note the cyclops lens over the date. It really works. The older I get, the better it works.

The Seiko two-tone GMT, purchased a few days ago. The Seiko also has a cyclops lens over the date. It’s a cool and useful touch. This is a very nice watch.

I’m a sucker for a good-looking watch. Many of my retired friends take pride in not wearing a watch, and many young people don’t wear watches (they’re glued to their cell phones all day; they can get the time there). I always wear a watch.

The first watch I ever owned was a gift from my parents. It was an inexpensive Timex that was completely unexpected, I loved it, and I wore it for years. I first recognized watches as a status symbol and a cool thing to own when I was in the Army, and like all the other lieutenants overseas, I bought a Seiko chronograph at the Base Exchange. After the Army came the aerospace industry where a Rolex was the status symbol, and when I was back in D.C. lobbying Congress to buy Aerojet cluster bombs instead of Brand X (Honeywell was Brand X for us), a jewelry store had the Rolex GMT Master II you see here. I wore it full time for years after I first bought it, and then only intermittently after that. I felt the Rolex was pretentious around clients, and I was afraid it would reinforce a feeling that they were paying me too much (which they were). Now that I’m retired, the fear of being pretentious has been replaced by the fear of getting mugged, so I don’t wear it very often.

The hands of fate. The top arrow points to the bezel, which can be rotated in relation to the GMT hand (lower left arrow) to tell time on a 24-hour scale in a different time zone. The second-from-the-top red arrow points to the minute hand. The arrow on the right points to the conventional hour hand. If you look closely at the inverted diamond at 12:00, you can see the bezel is slightly off.

So what is a GMT watch? Basically, it is a watch that allows you to tell time in three time zones. If you wanted to, one of the time zones could be Greenwich Mean Time (GMT), which is the time at the Greenwich Observatory in England. Most of the time, I could care less what the time is in England, but that’s where the GMT descriptor originates.

Today, there are multiple approaches for time telling in different time zones, but the classic approach (and one followed by the Rolex and Seiko watches in this blog) is through the use of a third hand and a bezel with 24-hour numbering. The way it works is this:

- - The standard hour and minute hands tell the local time.
  - The third hand can be shifted to tell the time in a different time zone.
  - The bezel can be rotated to tell the time in a third time zone.

There are variations on the above (like switching local time with destination time, etc.). All of this may sound like a solution looking for a problem, but trust on this, when you travel to different time zones, it’s a very useful feature.

The Rolex GMT allows you to “step” the hour in one-hour increments by use of the winding knob when the knob is partially pulled out (some folks say this makes the Rolex a “true” GMT). On the Seiko, it doesn’t have the “step” function; use of the winding knob advances either the third hand or the conventional hour hand without the one-hour clicks (depending on which click you bring the stem out to). To me, either approach is acceptable.

The Rolex GMT Master II retails today for $14,050; the Seiko goes for $475. There’s a lot more to the pricing story, though. Prices on a Rolex are all over the map, and Rolexes sell for well above their suggested retail price. Some, even used, sell for three or four times their suggested retail price. I don’t know what my Rolex would sell for today as a used watch, and I’m not really interested because it’s not for sale. The Rolex will eventually go to one of my grandsons. I paid $3287 for it new in that Washington, D.C. jewelry store in 1986. I could easily get my money out of it if I wanted to, but like I said, that’s not going to happen.

An all stainless (i.e., non-two-tone) Seiko GMT. These go for $317 on Amazon. It’s a good-looking watch.

Staying on pricing for a minute, the two-tone Seiko GMT is a relatively new model, so I couldn’t find it discounted on Amazon. If the two-tone coloring is not important to you, you can get the all-stainless version on Amazon for $317, which is a smoking deal (it’s $158 less expensive than the two-tone version).

My Seiko GMT was an impulse buy. Sue and I went out for lunch and there was a small watch shop a couple of doors down. They had the two-tone model, which I had not seen before other than in online watch forums and Seiko’s website (I was in Tokyo last year, and I didn’t even see it there). I asked the shop about a veteran’s discount, the guy said “you bet,” and mine set me back $402. I like supporting local businesses, I like doing business with shops that offer a veteran’s discount, and I liked being able to see the watch in person before I pulled the trigger.

My Rolex runs fast, gaining about a minute a week. That’s adjustable and would no doubt be corrected if I took the watch in for service, but I’m probably not going to do that. I’ve had the Rolex serviced twice. The last time was 25 years ago at the Rolex service center in Beverly Hills (where else could it possibly be?). Rolex clipped me $1000 for the service. I wasn’t happy at all. After the servicing, the numbers on the click-detented bezel were offset from where they should have been, and when I bitched about that, they remounted the bezel. It was better, but it is still offset a bit. Within six months of that service (which included replacing the crystal), I noticed a gouge on the crystal. I had worn the Rolex for 10 years before that and never had a scratch on the original crystal, so I have to wonder if I really received the sapphire crystal I paid for. A servicing today will probably be about $1500 if I get the crystal replaced and the bezel numbers remounted. It’s not likely I’ll spring for that. Maybe I will. I don’t know. It’s something I think about now and then, but then I think about getting out on the range with a milsurp rifle or riding my motorcycle and I forget about it. So far, the Seiko is keeping perfect time. I’ll let you know if that changes.

The Seiko is a new watch, so I haven’t had it serviced yet. Poking around a bit revealed that a typical mechanical watch servicing costs from $200 to $250. I think my local guy would probably be less than that. It’s quite a bit lower than what a Rolex service costs.

Both the Seiko and the Rolex are automatics. That means they are mechanical, selfwinding timepieces. The good news is there are no batteries, and it doesn’t matter if I stay out in the sun long enough to charge the solar power source. The bad news is that if I don’t wear an automatic watch for a few days, it stops. When that happens, prior to the next time I wear it I need to wind it and set the time. The Seiko, fully wound, has a 41-hour power reserve. The Rolex has a 70-hour power reserve. Rolex gets the nod here.

Regarding cosmetics, the “gold” bezel on the Seiko isn’t really gold; it’s plated. The accents on the Seiko hands and the watchface are similarly gold colored (i.e., they are not real gold). The Seiko’s jubilee bracelet links center areas are left a natural stainless steel finish. On the Rolex, they are gold. Another thing to note: On any Rolex, wherever you see something gold, it’s real gold. Nothing is plated on a Rolex. The bezel, the watchface accents, the hands, the winder, and the jubilee bracelet are all solid gold. Both watches look great, in my opinion. The real gold obviously drives the cost of Rolex higher than a Seiko, but not enough to explain the $14,000 (or more) difference. Most of the price difference is prestige pricing (Rolex gets away with it because some folks think they need such a thing). I used to be one of them. I’m not anymore.

About that jubilee bracelet: What they refers to are the smaller links in the watchband’s center section. Non-jubilee watches have bigger, single links instead of the jubilee bracelet’s three smaller links. To me, the jubilee bracelet makes a real comfort difference. The non-jubilee bracelet just doesn’t feel as good.

The Seiko is a much thicker case, and it sits higher on the wrist. It’s enough to be noticeable. The Rolex is thinner and I like the feel of it better for that reason.

Note the increased case thickness of the Seiko (on the right) compared to the downright thin Rolex. Rolex gets the nod here.

The Seiko’s stem winder is a push in/pull out affair. The Rolex stem winder unscrews, which theoretically makes it more waterproof. I don’t wear my watch in the shower any more (ever since I ruined a G-Shock by doing so), so the difference is meaningless to me.

One last area I’ll touch on is the clasp design. Hands down (pardon the pun) the win here goes to Seiko. The Seiko’s clasp has three retaining features compared to the Rolex clasp. The fear, of course, is that the watch clasp comes undone and the watch slips off the wrist. It could be damaged by a fall onto, say, concrete, or worse, go unnoticed. The other fear is pickpockets. I don’t know how difficult it would be for a pickpocket to lift your watch. I once had a guy (a magician) remove a watch I was wearing without me noticing it. That watch had a leather band and I later learned there’s a trick to it. I don’t know if there’s a comparable trick for a metal bracelet, but if there is, I would think the Rolex would be more susceptible to such a thing.

The Seiko (on the left) clasp has three retaining features; the Rolex (on the right) has only one (which is a small dimensional difference between the outer clasp and the mating pin on the inner clasp). The Seiko design is better.

The bottom line to me is that the Seiko is a hell of a deal for under $500, and if you are looking for a watch that offers all the advantages of a GMT and is dressy, the Seiko is a good buy. I own both, and I think Seiko hit a home run here.

There are other approaches to a GMT watch. Citizen has a different dual time approach with their Nighthawk and Blue Angels models. Many digital watches (some identified as GMT watches and some not) can display the time in different time zones at the touch of a button. Casio has several cool models that do this. The Citizen and the Casio watches are reviewed on our Product Reviews page.

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Pandas!

By Joe Berk

The big photo above is shows three very real pandas. I took it in Chengdu when Gresh and I rode across China. It’s a little blurry because I was shooting through inch-thick super-smudgy glass. The photo is for attention only. This blog is about a different kind of panda.

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When I was a pup back in the 1970s, I bought a Seiko chronograph watch in the Kunsan AFB Base Exchange. The Seiko model number was 6138-8020, and it was $67. I could have bought a Rolex there, too, but I remember thinking who spends $300 on wristwatch? Nope, it would be the Seiko for me.

A Seiko 6138-8020 recently advertised on Ebay for close to $2,000.

The Seiko 6138 was an automatic (i.e., self-winding) watch. It became known as the Panda due to its two black subdials on its white face. I liked the Seiko a lot. I was a jogger in those days, and I used the Seiko every day to time my 3-mile runs. Life was good but I went on to other things. After the Army I worked in the aerospace industry, and like most engineers I went the digital route (I wore a Casio calculator watch). When Ebay became a thing I went on a decluttering craze and the Seiko went down the road. I got $80 for it and I thought I was pretty clever. Then I watched the price of a 6138 go through the roof. That may be why I collect watches now. I’m still trying to make up for that mistake.

I’ve missed my Panda over the years, and I started looking around to see what was available. There are several. In my opinion, Breitling makes the best (and best looking) Panda. Their Premier model is an awesome automatic watch, but who spends $7,299 on a watch?

Breitling’s Premier chronograph. It’s a Holy Grail kind of a watch.

The Hamilton automatic American Classic is another great looking Panda. That answers the mail for me, too, but it’s a little bit rich for my blood. The Hamilton goes for $1,541.

Hamilton makes a Panda chronograph. Nice, but a little bit pricey.

Seiko has a solar-powered Panda watch in their Prospex line that looks pretty good to me. It’s a $700 watch. If you shop around, you can find them for about $500. That’s not bad, but Seiko also makes that watch with a red and blue face and a red and blue bezel (informally known as the Pepsi), and one of these days I’ll probably pull the trigger on one of those. So, I took a pass on the Seiko Panda.

Seiko’s Prospex Panda. This is a very good-looking watch.

Bulova recently got into the Panda shtick as well, with a set of different colors on their Lunar Pilot watch:

The Bulova Lunar Pilot Panda. Nice, and incredibly accurate.

The Bulova is $895. It’s nice, but a few years ago I bought the black dial Bulova that emulates the watch astronaut Dave Scott wore to the moon. With a Lunar Pilot already in the collection, I wanted something else.

I’d been thinking about this Panda thing for a couple of years now, and looking at watches from time to time on the Internet, and you know where this is going. The Internet is insidious, and the marketing emails starting coming in. Amazon sent one on the Orient Panda and it was $188. Seiko and Orient are both owned by Epson (yep, the printer company), and I know Orient to be a good watch (I’ve written before about my Orient moonie automatic watch). Here’s the Orient Panda:

The Orient had great reviews on Amazon, and I liked the look. One thing I’ve learned the hard way is that it’s hard to judge a watch’s appeal by a photo. Some that look great in a picture are totally unappealing in person, and vice versa. But for $188, I’m willing to take a chance. When the watch arrives (it’s a non-US model and it’s shipping directly from Japan), I’ll let you know how it looks. I like the metal bracelet; I may spring for a black leather (with white stitching) band (like the Breitling’s) somewhere down the road.

A few general observations on the above watches. You may have noticed that the bezel rings are different between the Orient Panda and the others. The Orient has equally-spaced marks that show how many seconds have elapsed when the stopwatch is activated. All the other Panda watches have what is known as a tachymeter bezel. The idea behind it is that you can use the tachymeter for determining rate. If you activate the tachymeter when passing a mile marker and then stop it at the next mile marker, it will tell you your actual speed (as long as you are going faster than 60 mph). If you are on a production line, you can activate the stop watch when starting one item and stop the watch when the item is completed. Let’s say it takes 9 seconds to complete one item. The stop watch’s second hand will point to how many items can be completed in an hour (in this case, 400). The tachymeter is a cool feature but I have never used it, so the fact that it is not on the Orient is okay by me.

I’ve mentioned automatic and solar powered watches. An automatic watch is a mechanical, self-winding watch. For some collectors, there’s a panache associated with a mechanical watch. I feel that way, and I have automatic watches. The downsides of an automatic watch are that if you don’t wear them for a few days they stop and then you have to reset them, and they are less accurate (typical automatic watch accuracy is about ±25 seconds per day. Some are better than others. If you’re a fanatic about time, you’ll probably reset an automatic watch about once a week. For watch geeks that’s okay. We like playing with our watches.

Solar powered watches are essentially quartz watches that are powered by the sun instead of needing a battery. The downside is the watch has to be in the light (either sunlight or artificial light) a little bit each day to keep running. The upsides are that if you don’t wear a solar powered watch but keep it where the light hits it, it keeps running, and solar powered (and quartz regulated) watches are phenomenally accurate (to the tune of a few seconds per month). I have solar powered watches that I haven’t worn for a year or more, and they accurate to within a few seconds of the time.gov website. That’s pretty cool.

Back to that ride into Chengdu to see the real pandas…you can read all about it in Riding China. Here’s a short video of Joe Gresh and yours truly slogging through Chengdu traffic on Zongshen RX1 motorcycles.

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Seiko and Honda: A Match Made In Takamanohara

By Joe Berk

The Honda Cub is the most-produced motor vehicle of any kind in the history of the world. Not just motorcycles, but motor vehicles. Honda passed the 100 million Cub mark years ago; today they still offer a Cub in the form of the 125cc Super Cub. That 100 million figure doesn’t count all the knockoffs by Yamaha and the Chinese marques. It’s a staggering number for a staggering vehicular concept. So, if you’re a watch company and you want to produce a watch honoring a motorcycle…well, you know where this is going.

Seiko is the company, and this year they introduced a limited edition of the Honda Super Cub watch. These watches have been nearly impossible to get, so I was astounded when on Christmas photog duty at the mall I wandered into a watch store and what do you know, there it was. It was the only Seiko Super Cub watch I’ve seen and I knew I had to have it. It’s self-winding and to watch weirdos like me it doesn’t get any better than a mechanical self-winding watch. The ticket in was $400, I asked if there was any room in the price, the store manager said no, and I pulled the trigger anyway. I bought it for list price and that was still a good deal.

Seiko is offering a limited run of the Super Cub watch in two colors. I’ve not seen the black one in person, but that’s okay. I like the green and white one better.

The Seiko Honda Super Cub watch has several cool details, including a NATO band, a rear cover intended to evoke a tail light, and a stem that looks like a Cub fuel gage.

Two of your blog boys (that would be Gresh and yours truly) both owned Honda Cubs back in the day (Huber didn’t, but he has an excuse…he wasn’t born yet). I guess that made Gresh and I two of the nicest people you’d ever meet.

To my great surprise, I found a couple of photos of my Honda Cub buried in an old photo album. The image quality is not up to my current standards, but hey, I took these photos with a Minolta C110 camera in the 1960s. With those little 110 film cassettes, these 60-year-old pics ain’t half bad.

I bought the Cub for $50 (a dollar per cubic centimeter) from Zeb Moser (a buddy in New Jersey; RIP, Zeb), rode around on it a little bit, and then sold it for $70 thinking I’d done well. There’s no need to say it, but I will anyway: I wish I still had my Cub.

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Pandas!

That Seiko watch you see on the right, known informally as “The Panda” in watch collector circles, is perhaps the best watch I’ve ever owned. I bought it at the Kunsan AFB Base Exchange when I was a young Army dude in 1975 for the princely sum of $76, which was a bit of a stretch for me. Oh, I had the bucks. The Army didn’t pay us much, but we didn’t have expenses, either, so $76 was eminently doable. In fact, I bought Seiko stainless steel chronographs from the Base Exchange for my Dad and my grandfather, too. Their watches were only $67, but the Panda had the day and the date on the face, and three timing features: Seconds on the main watch face, minutes on the lower subdial, and hours on the upper subdial. It was a beautiful thing and it was all mechanical. I wore it for about 10 years, and then when Ebay started to get popular I auctioned it away. I was quite pleased with the results. The watch that originally set me back $76 went for just north of $200 on Ebay 30 years ago. Today, though, that same watch brings around $2000. I sold too soon. Go figure.

Anyway, being the watch junkie that I am, I was more than a little intrigued by a very similar watch now being offered by Breitling. It is also an all mechanical watch Breitling calls the “Premier.”

I’d call it a Panda, and I’d sure like to own one. But the Breitling MSRP is a lofty $8500. They are just over $6,000 on Amazon, but that’s still way above my pay grade.

In poking around on the Internet looking at the Breitlings, I learned that they offer several versions of their Premier. One is a model that pays tribute to the Norton motorcycle, which has different colors, old school numbers on the face, and a band that, frankly, looks cheap to me. The colors don’t really work for me, either, but maybe that’s because I want my Panda to look like a panda. If I wanted a Norton motorcycle, I’d buy a Norton.

Seiko is back on the Panda wagon, too, as is Citizen and perhaps others with modern versions of this classic watch design. Their prices are way more reasonable, too, being in the $200 to $300 range. But the new Seiko and Citizen Pandas are solar-powered quartz watches.

There’s nothing wrong with electric watches (in fact, their accuracy is astounding), but I’m a mechanical guy. I own a few solar watches and several battery-powered watches. I like them all. But there’s a certain cachet (a fancy word for cool) associated with a mechanical watch, even if you give up a little accuracy. I would like to wear that Breitling just to pretend I’m still a yuppie, but it’s not gonna happen.

Watch this…

My name is Joe and I’m a watchaholic.

It started for me when I was a kid and my parents bought me a Timex, and it’s never subsided. I can’t walk by a watch store or jewelry counter without stopping. Watch technology has jumped through several advances in my lifetime, and I’ve enjoyed them all. I like digital and I like analog watches, and I like that different watches work best for different applications (it gives me an excuse for buying one that, you know, I might need). I like the idea that I can order a watch from overseas that’s not marketed here in the US, and I like a lot of the watches that are marketed here. I travel overseas on a fairly regular basis, so I’m a sucker for a good-looking GMT watch (they’re the ones that allow you to see the time in two or three different places in the world simultaneously). I’ll do another blog about the GMTs at a later date. The focus of today’s blog is ride-specific watches. I tend to think of watches by major motorcycle adventures, and there are three I want to mention today.

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The first one I’ll mention is the green-faced, military-styled Seiko I wore on the Western America Adventure Ride. It’s a quartz watch and it’s not a model that was imported by Seiko’s US distributor (which doesn’t mean much these days; I ordered it new from a Hong Kong-based Ebay store and it was here in two days). But I like the fact that I’ve never seen anybody else wearing this model.

I bought the Seiko on an Ebay auction about 15 years ago, and I think I got it for something like $52 brand new. I like the style, I like its relative light weight, and I like the size (it’s the right size, not ridiculously-large like many watches today). The Seiko is impervious to wet weather and it has served me well. Just for grins, I tried to find it again on the Internet, and I only found one that was used in an Ebay auction, and it had already been bid up to over double what I paid for mine new. You might be wondering about the compass directions on the Seiko’s bezel. There’s a method of using those, the watch hands, and the sun to identify which way is north. I don’t need that feature, I don’t use it, and I’d have to read the directions to learn it again, but it’s cool to know it’s there. It’s kind of an Indiana Jones thing, I guess.

Next up is the safety-fluorescent-green Timex Ironman I wore on the ride across China. I’d seen one at a Target department store and for reasons it would probably take a behavioral psychologist to explain, I decided it was one I had to have on the China ride. Gresh arrived in California a few days before we left for the China adventure, and we spent a good chunk of our pre-departure time running around to several different stores trying to find that watch. Maybe I thought it would match my riding jacket. Maybe I thought it would be good because you can light up the face at night (a feature that is very useful for finding your way to the latrine at night). Like I said…who knows? The Timex did a good job for me. It was bitter cold up on the Tibetan Plateau, hot in the Gobi Desert, hot and humid everywhere else, and it rained so hard at times I swore I saw a guy leading animals two-by-two into a Chinese ark. My Ironman is still going strong on the original battery. Those Ironman watch batteries seem to last forever.

The last one is a Casio Marlin diver’s watch. It has to be one of the best watch deals ever. I’m not a diver, and there are really no features (beyond telling time, luminescent hands, a rotating bezel, and a waterproof case) that I need, but I just like the thing. You can get a brand new Casio Marlin for a scosh under $50, and folks, that’s a smoking good deal.

It rained like hell half the time we rode in Colombia, and the Casio never let me down. I vividly remember waiting for the ferry to arrive in Magangué for our cruise down the Magdelana River to Mompos when a Colombian boy came over to see what we were all about. He fixated on my Casio as we waited in sweltering heat under the shade of a very small tree. He finally touched the watch and simply said “good.” You know, I needed that watch on the trip (it was the only one I had with me), but if I had a spare, I would have given it to him. I still wear the Casio regularly. It’s just a good, basic, comfortable, and easy to read watch. It’s a favorite.

Watches, saws, generators, and more…it’s all on our ExhaustNotes Reviews page!