Tag: Model 625 Smith and Wesson

.45 ACP ARX Bullets In Revolvers

By Joe Berk

I went to my indoor handgun range to try the ARX bullets in two .45 ACP revolvers, my 1917 redo revolver and the 625 Performance Center Smith and Wesson.   The 1917 is the one you see at the top of this blog.  It’s a beautiful N-frame Smith styled to look like the 1917 US Army revolvers with a 5 1/2-inch barrel and a lanyard ring.  Smith also added a nice t0uch:  Turnbull color case hardening.  It really is a beautiful revolver.

6 ARX rounds in a star clip, ready for shooting in the 1917 Smith.

The 625 is a special number Smith offered about a decade or so ago.  It has a custom barrel profile, ostensibly a smoother action, and better sights.  It came from the Performance Center with a gold bead front sight, which I didn’t care for, so the revolver went back to Smith for a red ramp front and white outline rear sight.  I thought the red ramp and white outline would be like what came on Smiths in the 1970s, but it wasn’t.  The red isn’t nearly as vibrant, and the white outline is sort of a dull gray.  Live and learn, I guess.

The Smith and Wesson Performance Center Model 625. This one wears custom grips.

I also added custom grips to the 625 (which I refinished myself, as I didn’t care for the red, birch, and blue clown grips that came with the gun).  I know this Model 625 Performance Center gun to be an extremely accurate revolver.  With 200-grain semi-wadcutters and 6.0 grains of Unique, this is one of the most accurate revolvers I’ve ever shot.

But enough about the revolvers.  This blog focuses on how the .45 ACP ARX bullets performed in these two handguns.  Everything we’ve written about the ARX bullets has been, up to this blog, about how the bullets performed in semi-auto handguns.  I shoot .45 ACP in revolvers, too, and I was naturally curious about how the composite bullets would do in those.

Another 6 ARX rounds in a star clip and the Model 625.

Here’s the bottom line:

      • The ARX composite bullets are not quite as accurate in my revolvers as they were in the 1911 with two different loads.  The groups were good (as you’ll see in the photos below), but they weren’t as good as they had been in the 1911.
      • Both revolvers shot low at 30 feet.  The 625 shot about 3 1/2 inches below the point of aim.  The 1917 shot about 5 inches below the point of aim.  In the 1911, the .45 ACP ARX load was spot on, putting the shots right where I aimed.

Here’s the relevant load and chrono data:

And here are the targets I shot with each revolver and the two different loads.  First, the Model 625 targets:

The aim point on this target was the 6:00 position on the upper orange bullseyes (as it was for all the targets shown here). The bullets hit 3 1/2 inches low. This is the target with the 8.8-grain Power Pistol load. The groups were nothing to write home about.
The Model 625 put the 7.0-grain Winchester 231 load in the same spot as the 8.8-grain Power Pistol load. The group sizes were about the same.

The next two photos show the 1917 targets:

The 1917 group with the 8.8-grain Power Pistol load was about 5 inches low.  I wasn’t trying for head shots.
The 1917 seemed to like the 7.0-grain Winchester 231 load a bit better, but the groups were still the same 5 inches low. As with the above targets, the aim point was at the 6:00 position on the upper bullseye.

As you can see from the above data, velocities from the 1917’s slightly longer 5 1/2-inch barrel were a bit higher than from the 625’s 4-inch barrel.  In the revolvers, the Winchester 231 velocities were higher than the Power Pistol loads (but not by much).  The opposite was true in the 1911.  Group sizes maybe were a bit better with Winchester 231 in both revolvers, but not as good as with the 1911.  The 1917 has fixed sights, so my only option there is to hold higher on the target.  The 625 had adjustable sights, but I don’t think there’s enough adjustment to make up for the 3 1/2-inch drop.

One more observation:  Winchester 231 is a much dirtier powder than Power Pistol.  I didn’t notice this with the 1911 comparisons I did earlier, but with a revolver, it’s quite noticeable.

One of the ARX bullets’ principal advantages is they keep the bore clean. There’s no lead or copper fouling.  When shooting any kind of bullet with Winchester 231 in a revolver, though, you’ll get plenty dirty.

In my opinion, the 118-grain ARX .45 ACP bullets are much better suited for the 1911 than they are for a .45 ACP revolver.    That’s my opinion only; your mileage may vary.

So there you have it.  This is our 6th blog on the ARX bullets, and I don’t have any more planned.   I think ExhaustNotes has the most comprehensive evaluation of these bullets you’ll find anywhere on the Internet or in any of the print pubs, and I feel good about that.  I like these bullets, and I really like them in my 9mm Springfield 1911, my 9mm S&W Shield, and my .45 ACP Springfield 1911.  I ordered a bunch of both the 9mm and .45 bullets, and they are what I’ll be shooting for the foreseeable future.

Prior ExNotes ARX bullet evaluations are here:

25 and 50 Yard ARX .45 ACP Results
Winchester 231 and Alliant Power Pistol .45 ACP ARX Results
Dialing In A .45 ACP ARX Load
9mm and .45 ACP ARX Load Testing
ARX Bullets In Two 9mm Pistols

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A Tale of Two More .45s

A couple of weeks ago I tested three .45 ACP loads in a Model 625 Smith and Wesson and my Rock Island Armory Compact 1911 using Winchester’s 231 powder and Jim Gardner’s 230-grain cast roundnose bullets.  We’ve done a bunch of accuracy testing in both .45 ACP revolvers and autos with other loads (and you can find those stories here).  This blog focuses specifically on Jim’s 230-grain roundnose bullets with Winchester 231 propellant.

Reloaded .45 ACP ammo with Gardner 230-grain cast roundnose bullets.  The 230 cast roundnose bullets replicate GI hardball ammo and this bullet feeds in just about any .45 auto.

To get to the point quickly, the Gardner 230-grain cast roundnose bullets did well (as you’ll see below).  My testing consisted of three .45 loads with 4.5, 5.0, and 5.6 grains of WW 231 powder:

I was checking for accuracy and functionality in both guns.  Here’s what I found:

    • The Compact 1911 likes 5.0 grains of 231, and that load functioned best with this powder in the automatic.  The slide locked back after the last round the way it is supposed to; it would not do so with 5.6 grains of 231.  Getting a short-barreled 1911 to function well is a bit tougher than a full-sized 1911.  With 5.0 grains of 231 and the 230-grain cast bullets, my Compact 1911 functions reliably.  Your mileage may vary.
    • 4.5 grains of 231 functioned okay in the 1911, too, but it is the least accurate load in both the 1911 and the Model 625 (of the three loads that I tested).
    • The Model 625 likes both 5.0 and 5.6 grains of 231, with a slight accuracy edge going to the 5.0-grain load (although what you see here is probably more a result of my skills than anything else).  The 625 is not as accurate with the lighter 4.5-grain 231 load.

Lyman’s reloading manual has 5.8 grains of 231 as the accuracy load with this bullet, but I didn’t go that high (it was a max load).  Like I said, it doesn’t function reliably in the Compact 1911, and my testing showed 5.0 grains to be the Model 625’s sweet spot from an accuracy perspective.

All shots were at 50 feet, and all loads used the Lee factory crimp die (which assures easy chambering in 1917-style revolvers).  The loads would do better from a machine rest or a steadier shooter.  It was hot out on the range the morning I fired these targets and that probably adversely affected accuracy, too.

Here are the Compact 1911 targets that I shot using the 5.0-grain 231 load:

Compact 1911 results: Close enough for government work.  I use Alco targets for this kind of testing; these have four silhouettes per sheet.

The Compact 1911 is not a target gun, but it is accurate enough for its intended purpose.  The Rock Compact 1911 is very concealable and it’s the handgun I carry most often.  They are surprisingly inexpensive and surprisingly accurate with the right loads.

These are the targets with the Model 625 and 5.6 grains of 231:

The big Smith and Wesson Model 625 worked well with 231 and Jim’s 230-grain roundnose bullets.  This is the 5.6-grain target; 5.0 grains of 231 were even more accurate for me.

The Model 625 Smith and Wesson is more accurate than the Compact 1911 (hey, no surprises there).  They are both fun guns to shoot.

I usually load .45 ACP ammo with either Unique or Bullseye powder, but I thought I would try 231 just because I had some on hand and I wanted to see how it would do.  I have an accuracy load for the Compact 1911 with Bullseye and a 185-grain bullet that we wrote about earlier.  Other guys tell me 231 is their preferred .45 ACP propellant and I still had a can of it that I had purchased for the 9mm cast bullet comparo some time ago, so I thought I would give it a try in the two guns featured here.  With the sketchy availability of reloading components during these uncertain times, it’s good to know that this powder works well in .45 ACP.  But after this test, I’m going to stick with the other two propellants (Unique and Bullseye), assuming I can get them.  What I didn’t like about 231 is that it is a sooty powder…I found it to be significantly worse in that regard than Unique.

WW 231 propellant is accurate, but it sure is a dirty powder.  My left hand was covered in powder soot after just a few rounds.

I’ve been real happy with Gardner’s bullets.  They are less expensive than other cast bullets, the accuracy is good, and I observed no leading in either handgun. I’ll be purchasing Gardner bullets again.  If you haven’t tried Jim’s bullets, you might give them a try.

More Tales of the Gun, 1911, 1917, bolt action sporter, milsurp, load data, and other good shooting and reloading posts are here!

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Reloading .45 ACP for 1917-style revolvers

The Model 625 with a box of my reloaded ammunition. The ammo in this photo had Xtreme 230-grain roundnose bullets. I found the Missouri cast roundnose bullets to be more accurate in my revolver.

Good buddy Rick C., one of the world’s great philosophers, once told me that every time he reloads he learns something new. I think he was right.  This story focuses on reloading .45 ACP ammo for the Model 625 Smith and Wesson revolver, and what I learned during a recent reloading session.

The Model 625 is a beautiful revolver.  It’s a direct descendant of the Model 1917 that Smith made for the US Army in World War I.  The only thing I sometimes find annoying about the 625 is that sometimes reloaded 45 ACP that chambers easily in a 1911 auto won’t chamber in the revolver.  This blog focuses on that issue.

The 625 and a box of ammo. This is a sweet-shooting and accurate handgun.
A typical 6-shot, 50-ft Model 625 group with my favorite load. That ain’t bad from a 4-inch revolver.

There are two kinds of ammo for these revolvers.  The first is standard .45 ACP, firing the same cartridge as the 1911.  The other is .45 AutoRim.  Firing .45 ACP ammo in a revolver like the Smith and Wesson 625 requires the use of either star or moon clips (the star clips hold six rounds; each moon clip holds three rounds).  Individual cartridges clip into these.  The clips provide proper headspace by holding the cartridges in place in the cylinder, and they allow the extractor to push the rounds out of the cylinder.   They also work as speed clips because you can insert six rounds into the cylinder simultaneously.   Theoretically, you could fire .45 ACP ammo in a Smith and Wesson revolver without the clips, but then you would need a probe to knock each case out of the cylinder.  The .45 AutoRim cartridge is very similar to the .45 ACP round, but it has a rim.  That eliminates the need for the clips.

.45 ACP ammo in 6-round star clips. The clips allow chambering .45 ACP ammunition in 1917-type revolvers. They are necessary because the .45 ACP cartridges don’t have a protruding rim to allow extraction.

Over the years, I’ve found that .45 AutoRim always chambers easily in a .45 ACP revolver.   With .45 ACP reloads, however, that’s not always the case.  That’s not good, as it sometimes prevents closing the cylinder.  Even if you can close the cylinder with difficult-to-chamber .45 ACP reloads, the loaded cylinder will often drag on the frame, making cocking or double action fire difficult.

I recently loaded a batch of .45 ACP ammo that I intended to fire in my Model 625, and as is my normal practice when loading for the 1911, I put just enough of a flare on the empty cases to allow the bullet base to start into the case.  After priming the cases, charging with propellant, and seating the bullets, I adjusted the seating die such that the brass just kissed the crimping ring in the seating die.   At this point, I thought it would be a good idea to check the first 10 rounds in the 625 to see if they chambered fully, and you can probably guess where this story is going.  A couple of rounds only went about two-thirds of the way into the chamber. I put a little more crimp on the cartridge; of the two that would not chamber, now one would and the other wouldn’t.

In examining the loaded rounds, I could see where the case had expanded circumferentially slightly after the bullet had been seated (it had a slight bulge at the base of the bullet.  I wondered if perhaps the Missouri 230-grain roundnose bullets I was loading were just too big, so I measured them. The box told me the bullets had been sized to 0.452 inches, and that’s exactly where they were. Then I measured the case outside diameter for the loaded rounds just below the case mouth. They measured 0.475 to 0.476 inch.  Then I went online to see what that dimension should be.  Here’s what I found:

The drawing above is misleadingly dimensioned. The dimension we’re interested in is the 0.473 case outside diameter at the case mouth (it looks like an inside diameter on the drawing, but it’s the outside diameter.   My reloaded ammo was 0.002 to 0.003 inch above this. I played around with the crimp a bit, but I couldn’t get that number to come down via crimping with my RCBS bullet seating die.

Then I had an idea. I removed the decapping pin and threaded shaft from the resizing die, and adjusted it to just kiss the loaded round a little to square up the bullet in the case and decrease the diameter at the case mouth a bit. I adjusted the depth of the seating die in the press such that I obtained a 0.473 outside case diameter result at the case mouth.  The first case chambered.   I then repeated the partial resize on 10 cartridges; all but one sucked right into the chamber with no circumferential play. I still had that one, though, so I played with the resizing die adjustment again until the dimension was right at 0.472, and that did the trick.  It removed the flare completely, and every subsequent cartridge I loaded using this technique chambered perfectly. Basically, I was using the resizing die as a crimping tool.

It bothered me that I had to go .001 below the 0.473 inch spec to get the ammo to chamber 100% of the time in my revolver, and I was a little worried about what this might be doing to the bullet diameter. I wondered what factory ammo measures, and then I realized I had some. So I pulled it out of the ammo locker and measured it. The factory ammo measured 0.470 inch at that dimension (0.003 under the 0.473 specification), which explains why factory .45 ACP ammo always chambers so easily in this revolver.  I also checked the drawing for the .45 AutoRim cartridge. It shows the case outside diameter at the business end to be 0.472, which is coincidentally exactly what I found to work perfectly for my reloaded .45 ACP ammo in the revolver.

I was a little bit worried that in running the cartridges part way into the resizing die I might be swaging the bullets to something below .451 inch (the minimum bullet diameter for this cartridge).  To check on this, I measured the case wall thickness. On my Winchester .45 ACP brass (which has a wall thickness perceptibly greater than other brass I sometimes use) the wall thickness is exactly 0.010. Since my ammo measured 0.472 at the mouth after my post-load resizing/crimping operation, that should leave the bullet at exactly 0.452 inch (or 0.472 – 2*0.010).  That’s exactly where it should be.  The cases hold that wall thickness for some distance into the case, too. I think what the operation is doing is aligning and straightening the bullet in the case.

I’m not using any lube for my secondary resizing operation. I have carbide dies, and they do not require it.

The proof on all of this was how the rounds grouped, and folks, they grouped well.  It was a little windy when I fired these groups at the West End Gun Club, but the gun and the ammo did what they are supposed to do.

Four groups of 6 shots each with the Model 625. 5.6 grains of Unique with a 230 cast roundnose bullet has always performed well for me in both revolvers and 1911 semi-automatics.

I like this modified approach (resize/decap, clean, prime, bellmouth, charge, seat, remove the FLRS decapper, and then crimp the ammo to 0.472 with the resizing die).  It works well, it produces an accurate load, and every round chambers easily in the Model 625.

My shooting buddies Rick and Robby tell me that the Lee factory crimp die does the same thing as what I’ve described above.  I ordered one for the .45 ACP and I’ll reload ammo using it, but that’s a topic for a subsequent blog.

Like what you read above?  More Tales of the Gun stories are here.