Tag: Indian

Indian Wars

Click the comments section of any post regarding the Indian Motorcycle Company and someone will be bitching that Polaris Indians are not real Indians. Within the first three or four replies you’ll see an outraged commenter laying out the perjury case on Indian. “It’s a lie!” they stammer. “Indian went out of business in 1953!” Along with constitutional scholars and threats of civil war Polaris Haters infest the Internet. Their selective-amnesia purity code and compulsion to complain loudly every time Indian tries to sell a motorcycle borders on fanatical. You couldn’t pay enough to get people so determined.

Clymer’s Enfield Indian from the 1960’s. One of the best-looking Indians ever.

Since it is presently impossible to go back in time to right all wrongs the Indian Haters would rather see Indian go out of business. Again. If the Haters are in a generous mood they may offer renaming the company as a way back into their good graces. Mind you, they still wouldn’t buy anything from parent company Polaris because they hate them too. I don’t see why Indian should give a rat’s ass about what these goofy product-junkies think. Indian is busy building motorcycles, not engaging in petty, low-effort Internet attempts to tear down other people’s hard work.

The thing that really riles the troops is when Indian puts 100-year badges on their bikes. The loonies go apoplectic. To them, an unbroken corporate line from 1903 to the present is the only acceptable scenario for Indian to exist. With the old brands like Norton, Triumph, Ossa and Benelli being bought up the Haters will have plenty of companies to be angry with for a long, long time.

Mid-1970’s Italian made Indian dirt bike.

The Haters aren’t solely responsible for the black hole at the center of their hearts. Vast quantities of intellectual capital have been expended on brand building in this country and in some cases it worked too well. We have created a monstrous humanity more concerned with defending brand-authenticity at the expense of reality. Haters have been sold to for so long that they actually care about the logo on a gas tank. It’s misplaced consumer loyalty created by Ned in the advertising department and it’s sad to see in action.

A Velocette-engined Indian that should drive the purists crazy.

Who cares what happened to Indian 70 years ago? Who cares how many times the company has passed through shifty hands? Who cares if clone engines were used or Italians made Harleys or if Clymer used Royal Enfields? Who cares about any of it? It’s a friggin’ motorcycle company, not a pledge of allegiance. When the history of the world is finally written the trinkets we bought to amuse ourselves will not even warrant a footnote. All you need to concern yourself with is that the Indian brand started in 1903 and here it is nearly 2020 and you can still buy a damn good American-made motorcycle with Indian written on the side of the gas tank. There’s your continuity, Bub.

Free Bobber? That Beats The Heck Out of a Duffle Bag!

The paper magazine business has taken a beating in the last few years. One magazine that seems to have their stuff together is American Iron, a book that focuses on American-made motorcycles. Somehow these guys get away with charging subscribers what it costs to produce 13 issues a year. For those of you counting that is three more issues a year than Cycle World and Motorcyclist combined!

Nestled among the beauty, health, gun and celebrity gossip periodicals, American Iron is the only motorcycle magazine still sold in supermarkets and drug stores. Start looking around; you’ll see AIM everywhere. I don’t fully understand what happened to the other guys but they made a half-hearted grab at the Internet while letting go of the fun and exclusive part: the monthly magazine.

I subscribe to a legacy magazine and I open my mailbox expecting to see nothing and at ever-diminishing intervals I get it. No matter how good they may be, four or six issues a year cannot keep the pot on boil. I don’t even know if I have time left on my subscription. I’ve gone from anticipating a new issue to being surprised by a new issue.

American Iron’s content is not exactly in my wheelhouse: when no one is looking I’m a dirt rider. But if you throw in a free Indian Bobber I could see myself getting into asphalt. Heck, promise me a one-cent decal and I’ll bite the head off of a pigeon. Offer me a T-shirt and I’ll rob a bank for you, just do something, anything, for readers other than shrink the product to reflect the subsidized pricing subscribers have been trained to expect.

So here’s the deal: Subscribe to American Iron and ride that Indian Scout Bobber home. It’s more costly than the lose-money-on-subs-make-it-up-in-advertising books but those guys aren’t giving away a Bobber and we need paper magazines to survive in America. When you subscribe do me a favor, tell them Joe sent you, I need a place to flog content!

Wild Conjecture: The FTR1200 Indian

This photo may or may not be the new Indian FTR1200 that we’ve all been fantasizing about since Indian shoved both H-D and Kawasaki aside and took over flat track racing in America. Posted by Roger Gutterridge and brought to my attention by my internet buddy, Skip Duke, I have no way of knowing if this is the real thing.

Here at Wild Conjecture we don’t concern ourselves with facts. Indeed the very name of the joint suggests half-cocked ideas and squishy logic. But there are a few things that make me think this bike may be real.

What do you think?
A great engine.

The engine seems to be based on the regular Scout, at least the bottom-end looks mostly the same. I really don’t see why Indian would try to street-ify a race engine when the Scout unit is reliable and makes decent horsepower. What would be the advantage of creating another dealer parts stream and the exposure to warranty claims for a new engine that cuts a few pounds? The American motorcyclist has proven time and time again that weight is not a deal killer.

The frame looks pretty cool, perhaps a Ducati employee was spirited away to Spirit Lake? Rear suspension has Indian’s patented no-stroke shock absorber technology and by the girth of the spring looks to be mono shock. Front suspension is via the now traditional upside down fork with a steepish rake compared to Indian’s cruiser offerings. Flat track style handlebars top the front end. The front brakes are huge and doubled. Stopping should not be an issue with this bike.

Giant mufflers occupy most of the left rear section but I’m guessing there’s a box underneath to soak up more life saving noise. Body-wise, the gas tank could be a bit further forward and an inch or so higher in the front. As is it sort of looks like someone put the wrong tank on the FTR. I only have this one angle so it may be fine from another angle. The wheels look like they came directly off the race bike but I’m guessing in 17-inch for a wide selection of tires. Shod with flat track treaded tires, they look the business.

Nothing on the pictured bike looks undoable. Indian could start cranking these things out any time they wanted to. Overall, I like the bike. Since Indian began teasing us with hints of the street-going FTR about 482 years ago I’ve heard many comments from the buying public. The general consensus is that if Indian builds a street version of their 750cc race bike we will beat a path to their door.

This doesn’t look like a street version of Indian’s 750cc racer. It looks like a race styled version of their Scout. For real life street riding the Scout engine is the better choice and you won’t miss changing flywheels for an afternoon ride in the mountains. If you really want to race flat track just pony up the $50K and get the real thing.

Wild Conjecture loves the thing pictured even if it’s a red herring. More importantly, what do you think? Has Indian made the flat track bike that you said you would buy? Is this thing a phony? Is it real enough?

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Malls, Munro, Taj Mahals, and more…

An Indian in the cupboard? Not quite. Read on.

I guess I should start this piece by explaining I’m not even sure what the Clifton Club is. After spending several minutes on Google researching it, all I could find is that it’s either a wedding and Bar Mitzvah venue in Lakewood, Ohio, or a series of bling pieces from high-end watch maker Baume and Mercier. I’m going to go with Door No. 2 on this one. It’s the only explanation that makes sense in the context of what follows.

Let me back up a step. Yesterday I chauffeured the ladies to Fashion Island in Newport. It’s a very trendy shopping mall in a very trendy part of So Cal (think Neiman-Marcus, Nordstrom’s, French poodles, BMWs, and the like).  For me, a visit to any shopping mall is torture, but it keeps me in good graces with the rest of the clan and builds up goodwill points for the next collectible firearm purchase, so it all works out.

Anyway, while the girls were shopping I wandered into a high-end watch store (think Rolex and armed guards) and I noticed, of all things, a motorcycle. A new Indian, to be precise, in the middle of the store. I’ve never ridden an Indian (new or vintage), but I always thought they were beautiful motorcycles (again, both new and vintage).  I’m not a big cruiser guy, but if I was, I think I would buy an Indian. They are good-looking motorcycles, and my buddies Joe Gresh and Duane both hold them in high regard (and that’s a powerful endorsement).

While I was admiring the Indian, a sales guy approached me (my new good buddy Eduardo…Eduardo, I think, is a particularly elegant name).  Eduardo saw my confusion (a motorcycle in a jewelry store?), and he explained that Indian had a marketing partnership with Baume and Mercier, a high-end Swiss watchmaker.  It all centered on Burt Munro and his record-breaking land speed record activities.  Indian.  Baume and Mercier.  Burt Munro.   Ah, it all came together.

The Baume and Mercier Indian watch. $3900, and it could be yours. Motorcycle not included. It is a beautiful timepiece.  It’s part of their Clifton Club collection, and if you wear it, you could be a member, too.
Indian got it right.  It’s an OHV engine, but the valve covers are designed to emulate the flathead design of the original Indians.  It’s masterful, I think.
There’s a lot of room in those freight and setup fees.  Don’t ever pay what any dealer asks for in these two categories. Read 5000 Miles at 8000 RPM, available on Amazon.com, and you’ll see what I’m talking about.

Do these marketing partnerships work? I suppose they do. More than 20 years ago, Ford teamed with Harley to offer a special limited edition F-150 pickup with Harley decals.  As near as I could tell, the decals were the only thing special about that truck, and the only thing limiting the edition was how many they could sell. I had a lot of fun teasing a friend of mine who owned both a Harley Bad Boy (yep, they actually had a model with that name) and the limited edition truck. I drove a ginormous Tahoe and I rode a Suzuki TL1000 in those days.  I told my friend I was going to put Suzuki decals on the Chevy and call it a TL-Ho. Good times.

Anyway, the Baume and Mercier watch I saw yesterday was cool (at $3900, it should be), and the Indian was beautiful. I hope the deal works out for Baume and Mercier, and for Indian. I pondered the Harley and Ford partnership mentioned above; I’m guessing nothing came of that, as the two companies seemed to have parted ways.  Then I remembered that Bentley, the luxury British carmaker, has a partnership with Breitling (Breitling is another expensive Swiss watchmaker).

I wondered…what’s in it for the companies that strike up such partnerships, and what’s in it for their customers? I don’t think there’s any kind of pricing advantage or free gear package, so what would be the attraction?  Is it simply living a branded lifestyle (you know, for insecure rich folks who need something more in their lives)?   Or is it somehow making a statement about one’s wealth?   Look at me!  I drive a Bentley and wear a Breitling!

That got me to thinking…would a marketing partnership work for other brands, and in particular, would such a partnership work for less expensive motorcycles and watches?   You know, look at me!  I ride an RX3 and I wear a Timex!

What if you could sell a new motorcycle and give away a free watch with it? I’m thinking of China bikes, India bikes (not Indian Moto, but bikes actually made in India), and maybe Thai bikes.  It might work if you included a free watch with each new motorcycle, and it would cost essentially nothing. I visited the Canton Fair in Guangzhou last year and I’m on their email list now, so I get all kinds of offers from Chinese manufacturers.  You can buy new Chinese watches for $0.62 each (and if you’re thinking they are low quality, you need to think again and maybe research where what you’re currently wearing is actually manufactured).

The branding and theming opportunities might be fun.  KLRs are made in Thailand…suppose you got a free milk-crate-themed watch to match your KLR’s topcase?  The KTM 390 is made in India; perhaps you could include a Taj Mahal themed watch with each new 390 (isn’t that what the “TM” in KTM stands for, anyway?).  Think of all the marques with models, engines, or major components manufactured in Thailand, India, and China…Hawk, SWM, CSC, Royal Enfield, BMW, Harley-Davidson, Triumph, Honda, and more.  You can see the possibilities.

Yeah, this could work.