This is our third and final blog on the Lee .44 Magnum Deluxe 4-die set. We posted an initial blog on the four dies and their components, and then a second blog on how to setup each die in the reloading press. This last blog on the .44 Magnum Deluxe 4-die set shows how my reloaded ammo performed and wraps up my thoughts on the Lee 4-die set’s advantages.
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Here’s the bottom line: The Lee Deluxe 4-die set is easy to set up, it makes accurate ammo, and it positively prevents bullet pull under recoil. Lee’s locking, crimping, and decapping pin retention approaches are superior and the Lee dies cost less. It’s a better product at a lower price.
That said, let’s take a look at the specifics.
.44 Magnum ammo loaded with Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set. It’s good looking, consistent, and accurate ammo.
I used my Turnbull Ruger Super Blackhawk for this test series. It’s the gun you see in the big photo at the top of this blog. I fired 5-shot groups at 50 feet from a bench, using a two-hand hold and resting my hands on the bench. No other part of the revolver was supported and I did not use a machine rest. I held at 6:00 on the orange bullseye.
Superb Accuracy
This, to me (and I imagine to most reloaders) is the most crucial aspect in evaluating any reloading equipment, and in my experience, Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set provides superior accuracy. I was more than pleased with the results. The targets below speak for themselves. My preferred .44 Magnum load of 6.0 grains of Bullseye with a 240-grain cast semiwadcutter bullet, reloaded with Lee’s Deluxed 4-dies set worked well. It was accurate, and barrel leading and recoil were minimal. I know you can load hotter .44 Magnum loads. Read that sentence again, and put the accent on you. A 240-grain projectile at just under 1000 feet per second (which is what my load provides) works fine for me.
A one-hole, 5-shot group brought to you by Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set.Typical .44 Magnum groups at 50 feet with ammo loaded on Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set.Modest barrel leading after 50 rounds of .44 Magnum ammo with cast bullets.
Groups that tore one ragged hole were typical. That speaks highly of the Lee die set’s ability to produce consistent ammo.
Consistent Crimping
The Lee factory crimp die is just a better approach than any other die maker’s. It gives a better crimp, it assures cartridge chambering, and I believe it maintains better bullet alignment in the case. Yeah, you can crimp in a separate step with the bullet seating die, but then you wouldn’t have the carbide straightening and alignment features you get in the Lee factory crimp die. It’s a better approach that better aligns the bullet in the case and guarantees reliable chambering.
A beautiful and consistent crimp.
Simply put, with the Lee factory crimp die there is no bullet movement under recoil. None of the cartridges in this test series experienced bullet pull under recoil. The Lee crimp die does a great job in locking the bullets in place. In similar testing using a Lee Deluxe 4-die set in .357 Magnum, I found that regular crimping (i.e., not using the Lee factory crimp die) allowed bullet pull, but crimping with the Lee factory crimp die did not. This .44 Magnum reloaded ammo performed similarly.
Easy Die Adjustability
The Lee dies are easy to adjust and they stay in adjustment. I like Lee’s incorporation of orings for holding the locknut in place and for locking the die position in the press.
Lee uses orings extensively for lockrings and other adjustments. The approach works.
When I first encountered Lee’s oring approach 40+ years ago, I thought it was a bit sketchy, but I’ve come around. I believe this is better than using a standard locknut, even when the locknut uses a set screw to lock it in place on the die body. The Lee approach is easier to use. You can remove the die and preserve the adjustment without damaging the die body threads. I’ve never had a Lee die go out of adjustment, and to my surprise, none of the orings on any of my Lee dies ever deteriorated or otherwise failed (and some of my Lee dies are more than 30 years old). Even if an oring did fail, based on my prior experience with Lee Precision I’m pretty sure if I (or you) called Lee, they’d ship a replacement for free.
Free Shellholder
As mentioned previously in one of the blogs in this series, I like the fact that a Lee die set includes the shell holder.
Lee provides a free shellholder with their dies. It’s the right thing to do.
With most (maybe all) other die manufacturers, you have to buy the shellholder separately. That’s an inconvenience and an added expense. I like Lee’s approach better.
Better Decapping Pin Retention
I like Lee’s approach for securing the sizing die decapping pin better than the approach used by the other guys.
The Lee decapping pin retention approach is a superior engineeirng design.
With other manufacturers’ dies, if something obstructs the decapping pin, it’s easy to bend or break the decapping pin. When that happens, a reloading session is over until a new pin is installed. With Lee’s approach, an obstruction just backs the decapping pin out of the locking collet, and if that occurs, it only takes a minute to fix.
Lower Cost
Lee dies are less expensive than other dies. Simply put, you get more bang for your buck with Lee dies.
The Bottom Line
As I said above, the .44 Magnum Lee Deluxe 4-die set is easy to set up, it makes accurate ammo, and it positively prevents bullet pull under recoil. Lee’s locking, crimping, and decapping pin retention approaches are superior and the Lee dies cost less. It’s a better product at a lower price.
This is the second blog in our series of three articles on the Lee Deluxe 4-die set. The first blog focused on the dies and their components; this blog focuses on how to set up the dies in a press.
1. Shellholder
As a first step, I inserted the shell holder (No. 11 in Lee’s numbering system) into the press ram. It’s a no brainer, but I wanted to mention that Lee includes the shellholder with their dies, which is a nice touch.
I then raised the reloading press ram, and threaded in the sizing die in until it made contact with the shell holder. After the bottom of the sizing die contacted the shell holder, I lowered the press a bit, turned the die into the press a bit more, and tested it by raising the ram again. I wanted to feel just a bit of pushback on the ram.
The shellholder (lower arrow) in intimate contact with thre sizing die (upper arrow).
Once I felt resistance in the ram lever with the ram fully raised, I screwed the sizing die’s locking ring all the way down to the press head.
Screwing down the sizing die locking ring.
Once that adjustment was made, I don’t have to adjust the sizing die again for future reloading sessions. I can unscrew it by grabbing the locking ring and unscrewing it from the press head. The locking ring’s oring prevents the locking ring from inadvertently moving on the die body. All I need to do is screw the sizing die into the press.
The sizing die locking ring screwed all the way down to the press head.
At this point, I proceeded to size 50 cases. I inserted each into the shell holder and raised the ram fully. This both knocked out the old primer and resized each case.
Sizing .44 Magnum cases and punching out the spent primers.An ejected, spent primer..44 Magnum case with primer removed.
3. Expanding
After completing the resizing operation, I unscrewed the sizing die from the press and partially screwed in the expander die (just a couple of turns at this point). I placed a resized cartridge case in the shell holder and raised the ram fully.
I then continued to screw in the expander die until I felt the cartridge case touching the expander die. I then lowered the ram slightly and screwed the expander die a little further into the press, raising the ram and then lowering it again. I repeated this in minor increments to get the desired amount of flare on the case mouth. I knew I only needed a little bit, just enough to allow a bullet to start in the case mouth. When I do this part of the expander die installation, I check for adequate case mouth flare by taking a bullet and checking to see if it can start in the case mouth.
I used Missouri Bullet Company 240-grain cast bullets for these reloads.The 240-grain Missouri bullets.
I don’t put too much flare on the case mouth. All that’s necessary is enough to allow the bullet to start into the case mouth.
The case on the left has not had the case mount expanded; the case on the right has had the case mouth expanded. Only a small flare is necessary.
Once the bullet could start to enter the case mouth, I knew I had enough flare. At that point, I raised the ram with the case in the shellholder. The case is now in intimate contact with the expander, preventing any expander die rotation. I then threaded the locking ring all the way down on the expander die, locking it in place in the press.
Screwing down the locking ring after the expander die has been adjusted.The expander die lock ring locked in position.
Once I had locked the expander die in place, I proceeded to run all 50 cartridge cases through it.
50 Starline cases that have been run through the expander die. I usually reload handgun cases in multiples of 50.
After completing that operation, I grabbed the expander die by its locking collar and unscrewed it. It, too (like the sizing die) now had the locking ring in the right place, and it would not require adjustment for future reloading sessions (for .44 Magnum ammo; if I wanted to load .44 Special ammo, the shorter .44 Special cases would require making the adjustment described above again).
4. Priming
At this point, I seated primers in all 50 cases. I use an older Lee priming tool that is no longer available from Lee. My Lee priming tool is close to 50 years old, which says a lot about the quality and durability of Lee reloading equipment. I’m not going to spend too much time today talking about seating the primers, as this blog is focused on the Lee Deluxe 4-die set. I may do a future blog on the latest Lee priming equipment.
My old Lee priming tool. It still does a great job.
5. Charging
After priming, I charged the cases with propellant. My load is 6.0 grains of Bullseye powder with a 240-grain Missouri Bullet Company semiwadcutter bullet. You won’t find that load in modern reloading manuals. I have a library of old reloading manuals; this one is from an earlier Lyman cast bullet handbook.
An oldie but still a goodie. I use Bullseye powder for several different handgun loads.An older Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook with a great load for the .44 Magnum.6.0 grains of Bullseye with a 240-grain cast bullet works well in the .44 Magnum.50 Starline cases primed and charged with Bullseye propellant.
6. Bullet Seating
I next seated the bullets using the bullet seating die. The bullet seating die can also be used to crimp the bullet in place, but I don’t crimp with this die. To prevent the bullet seating die’s internal crimping ring from crimping the bullet, I screwed the bullet seater nearly all the way into the bullet seating die (I wanted the bullet seater to reach the bullet before the die’s crimping feature reaches the case mouth). I then adjusted the bullet seating depth by screwing the die body deeper into the press.
A .44 Magnum cartridge about to have its bullet seated to the correct depth. The upper arrow points to the bullet seater adjustment; the lower arrow points to the locking ring.
I adjusted the die deeper into the press until the bullet was seated to its crimping groove. This resulted in an overall cartridge length of 1.600 inches.
Having a good calipers helps reloading enormously.The 240-grain bullet seated at an overall cartridge length of 1.600 inches, but not yet crimped in place.
After I had achieved the desired bullet seating depth, with the ram raised and a cartridge with a seated bullet in the shell holder, I screwed down the die’s lock ring to lock the die in place. I then seated the bullets in all 50 cartridges.
7. Crimping
The last die is the crimping die. Here’s what it looks like.
The Lee Factory Crimp Die. This is a stellar bit of reloading equipment.
To install and adjust the crimping die, I raised the ram without a cartridge in the shellholder. I then screwed the die fully into the press head until the bottom of the crimping die firmly contacted the shellholder. At that point, I backed the crimp adjuster nearly fully out (until I knew it would not contact the cartridge case). I needed to do this step without a cartridge in the press because if I tried to do it with a cartridge in the press, I might have overcrimped the bullet in the case before I had the crimp adjustment correct.
The shellholder in intimate contact with the bottom of the Lee factory crimp die.The factory crimp die locking ring, fully screwed down on the die body.
I lowered the ram, installed a cartridge that had not been crimped into the shellholder, and raised the ram fully. I lowered the crimp adjuster until it contacted the cartridge case (I could feel when it did do by increased resistance on the crimp adjuster as I screwed it into the die body).
The crimp adjuster.
I then withdrew the ram slighly and turned the crimp adjuster in a little bit more. I backed off the ram and examined the crimp. I repeated this process (backing off the ram, screwing the crimp adjuster in a bit more, and examining the crimp) until I was satisfied with the crimp.
A crimped .44 Magnum cartridge. The Lee factory crimp die does a great job.
Once I was satisfied with crimp, I crimped all 50 cartridges.
50 reloaded .44 Magnum cartridges.Reloaded ammo in the cartridge box.
The last step for me was to label my newly reloaded box of .44 Magnum ammunition.
Labeling is critical. If I don’t do this immediately after loading the ammo, I might forget what the recipe was.
I had my 50 rounds of reloaded .44 Magnum ammo; the next step was a trip to the range to see how it shot. That blog will post in about a week. A spoiler alert…this ammo performed magnificently. Stay tuned, and you’ll see.
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A month or so ago I wrote a blog about Lee’s .357 Magnum Deluxe 4-die set. I liked those dies so much I picked up a Lee 4-die set in .44 Magnum. I am similarly pleased with this latest set of dies. There’s too much info to fit into one blog post, so I’m presenting it in three blogs:
This first blog is about the four different dies, what each does, and the parts in each die. Lee’s engineering is superior, and this blog showcases it.
A second blog will focus on installing each die in my loading press, and how to adjust the dies to make world class .44 Magnum ammunition. Watch for this blog within the week.
A third (and concluding) blog reveals how ammunition loaded with the Lee dies performed. The ammo was stellar and I’m a believer. Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set is a magnificent product and it makes magnificent ammunition. But don’t take my word for it. You’ll see it in the groups I shot. The accuracy blog will post in about two weeks.
So, here we go. When I reload, I start with fired ammo brass cartridge cases, like you see below.
Fired .44 Magnum ammo brass cases, loaded into the vibratory cleaner. The vibratory cleaner polishes the brass cartridge cases. This makes the cases look good, but more importantly, it prevents them from slipping rearward against the cylinder walls when the reloaded ammo is fired.
And when I finish, this is what I have…newly reloaded ammunition as good as or better than factory ammo, at a fraction of the cost of factory ammo. That “as good as or better than factory ammo” descriptor is misleading. My ammo is better.
A box of reloaded .44 Magnum ammo, custom tailored to my requirements, and capable of superior accuracy.
As most of you know, a gun chambered in .44 Magnum can also shoot .44 Special ammo (just like a .357 Magnum can shoot .38 Special). .44 Magnum dies can be used for reloading .44 Special ammo.
The label for each Lee die set is a printed instruction and load data sheet. The boxes are indexed and they stack nicely.
Lee dies come in a hard plastic case with a clear cover. The cover is removed by inserting a flat blade screwdriver on either side.
The plastic cover needs a little coaxing with a flat blade screwdriver to open. The cover includes a recess for screwdriver insertion.
The Lee label unfolds to reveal directions on using the dies along with a bunch of other information, including several suggested loads. Over the last five decades, I’ve found a few .44 Magnum loads I like, and in particular, I have a favorite load I shoot in the Ruger Super Blackhawk. I will share more of that with you in the next blog in this series.
The Lee instruction sheet includes load data and other information.
Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set consists of four dies, a shellholder, and a powder cup:
A carbide sizing die.
An expander die.
A bullet seating die.
A factory crimp die.
Here’s what the die set looks like after you remove the cover.
The Lee .44 Magnum/.44 Special Deluxe 4-die set. From left to right, it’s the factory crimp die, the expander die, the yellow powder cup, the shellholder, the bullet seating die, and the sizer die.
1. Sizing Die
The sizing die is a sizing and decapping die. When this die is installed in the reloading press and a fired brass case is inserted into it by raising the press ram, two things occur:
The cartridge case is resized to its original diameter (it expanded when the cartridge was fired, so it needs to be resized to specification dimensions). The Lee die is a carbide die, which means is has a very hard carbide steel tube inside the die body. Because it is a carbide die, there’s no need to lubricate the cartridge cases for the resizing operation (like you have to do with plain steel dies). Carbide dies are much preferred for this reason.
The used primer is pushed out of the cartridge case (this is the decapping operation).
Here’s the sizing die.
The Lee sizing die. The red arrow points to the locking collar.
Here’s the sizing die from the bottom:
The top arrow points to the locking ring. It has an oring that holds the locking ring in place. The locking ring is screwed down on the threaded die body to lock the die body in place. The middle arrow points to the carbide sizing insert. The center ring points to the decapping pin, which pushes the spent primer out of the cartridge case.
Viewed from above, the decapping pin is secured by a threaded collet that screws into the die body. It’s a good approach because if there is an obstruction (if the pin hits the case bottom rather than the primer through hole, or if the primer through hole is blocked), the decapping pin simply pushes up in the threaded collet nut. This prevents bending or breaking.
The upper arrow points to the top of the decapping pin. The lower arrow points to the threaded collet that secures the decapping pin in the die body.
2. Expander Die
Once the cartridge case has been resized in the sizer die, it needs to be opened up slightly and the case mouth needs to be flared to allow a new bullet to be started in the case. This is accomplished with the expander die. Like each die in the Lee Deluxe 4-die set, this die includes a locking ring to lock the die in the reloading press. Some reloaders charge the case (add powder to the case) during the expander die operation. I don’t reload this way, and I don’t know any reloaders who do.
The Lee expander die consists of six components. These are:
The die body.
The locking ring and its oring.
An oring between the die body and the through hole insert.
An expander.
The through hole insert.
These components are shown in the photo below.
Expander die parts. The die body, the locking ring, and the oring are shown as a subassembly on the left. The arrow points to the expander. The part on the right is the powder through hole insert.
The expander slides up in the die body when a cartridge case is inserted by the press ram. When it reaches the end of its travel, a ramp in the expander plug creates a flare on the case mouth. This is what will allow a new bullet to be inserted in the cartridge case. In the photo below, the expander plug is inverted from its installed orientation to allow a better view of this ramp
The arrows point to the ramped surface that creates a flare in the case mouth.
You might wonder why there is a powder through hole component at the top of the expander die, and why the ramped expander plug is allowed to move up and down as a cartridge case is inserted into the expander die. The through hole allows inserting powder into the case with the powder cup (which I don’t use). Other Lee reloading gear uses the expander plug up and down motion to activate automatic powder dispensing devices (this is the approach used on Lee’s progressive reloaders).
The business end of the Lee expander die. The red arrow points to the expander plug as the cartridge case sees it.The cartridge case on the left has not been through the expander; the cartridge case on the right has been through the expander. Notice the very slight flare on the right cartridge case mouth. This will allow starting a bullet into the case.
3. Bullet Seating Die
The bullet seating die is the third die in the Lee Deluxe 4-die set. This one is a bit more complicated than the first two because there are two adjustments, and this die can also be used as a crimping die. With the 4-die set, I am not going to use this die for crimping. I am only going to use it for seating the bullet to its required position in the cartridge case.
The bullet seating die is shown below.
The bullet seating die. The upper arrow points to the bullet seating adjuster, the middle arrow points to the die body, and the lower arrow points to the locking ring.
Here’s Lee’s illustration of the bullet seating die.
From the outside, the bullet seating die and the factory crimp die appear to be almost identical. The easiest way to distinguish them is by the size of the knurled segment on top and by the length of the die body.
The bullet seating die is on the left; the crimping die is on the right. The bullet seating die has a longer knurled section and the die body is longer.
The bullet seating die parts include:
The die body.
The bullet-seating adjuster and its locking oring.
The locking ring and its oring.
The bullet seater.
These parts are shown below.
From left to right, this photo shows the bullet seating die body and locking ring, the bullet seater (denoted by the arrow), and the bullet-seating adjuster and its locking oring.The bullet seater.The bullet seater as seen by the bullet. The arrow points to the bullet seater.
I mentioned above that I use this third die in the Lee Deluxe 4-die seat only to seat the bullet. It can also be used to crimp the cartridge case around the bullet, but I don’t crimp with this die. I use the Lee factory crimp die for crimping.
The bullet seating die also includes a crimping ramp in the die body, as shown by the arrow.
To adjust the die to do this, I run the bullet-seating adjuster well into the die body so that it pushes the bullet to its desired seating depth before the crimping feature reaches the cartridge case. I’ll describe this adjustment in more detail in tomorrow’s blog.
You might wonder: Why not do both (bullet seating and crimping) with this one die? Some folks do, and if you have the Lee 3-die set (not the Deluxe 4-die set), that is your only option for crimping. But this approach has the bullet still being inserted into the case as the crimping operation occurs, which invites potential bullet misalignment. To get around that, I use the fourth die in the Lee Deluxe 4-die set (the factory crimp die).
4. Factory Crimp Die
The factory crimp die does three things:
It roll crimps the bullet in place.
It maintains bullet alignment in the cartridge case.
It removes any imperfections in the cartridge case to assure easy chambering.
Here’s the factory crimp die.
Here’s Lee’s illustration of the factory crimp die:
The factory crimp die has the following parts:
The die body.
The locking ring and its oring.
A carbide crimper sleeve.
The crimping adjuster and its locking oring.
These parts are shown below.
The Lee factory crimp die disassembled. From left to right, this photo shows the die body and its locking ring, the carbide crimper sleeve (indicated by the red arrow), and the crimp adjuster and its locking oring.The carbide crimper. The red arrow points to the crimping ring inside the carbide crimper. Note that this feature must point down when the die is assembled; this piece is orientation sensitive.
The carbide crimper shown above requires the cartridge case to enter the carbide crimper sleeve before the crimp is executed. This is an important feature, as it maintains bullet alignment with the case as the crimp is achieved and prevents case deformation that could interfere with chambering. Also, the bullet is not moving further into the case as the crimp is achieved, which is what would occur if I used the bullet seating die to crimp the case.
The factory crimp die as seen by the cartridge. The upper arrow points to the crimper sleeve; the lower arrow points to the crimping ring within the crimper sleeve.
There’s another carbide ring at the base of the factory crimp die, shown by the photo below.
Lower carbide ring in the Lee factory crimp die.
The factory crimp die lower carbide ring both prevents and removes any deformation in the cartridge case when the case is crimped and the cartridge is inserted and withdrawn from the die. This assures easy chambering and bullet-to-case alignment.
So there you have it. In our next blog, which will post in about a week, I’ll explain how I set up each of the dies in my press.
You might be wondering: Do these Lee dies really work? The short answer is an emphatic yes. I found when loading .357 Magnum ammo with the Lee Deluxe 4-die set that accuracy improved and bullet pull (bullets backing out under recoil) was eliminated. To jump ahead a bit, the .44 Magnum Deluxe 4-die set described in this blog resulted in stellar accuracy. I’ll cover that in a third blog, which will publish in about two weeks. Before I get there, though, here’s a teaser photo:
One of a limited run of Turnbull color case hardened Ruger Super Blackhawks, and targets shot with ammo reloaded using Lee’s Deluxe 4-die set.
If you want to make sure you don’t miss any of the upcoming .44 Magnum Lee Deluxe 4-die set blogs, grab your free ExNotes subscription here:
This blog is longer than I intended it to be. I thought I would just do a quick bit about a new set of Lee reloading dies I recently purchased, but as I got into it, I learned more about my Colt Python, crimping with a bullet seating die versus a dedicated factory crimp die, and well, the thing just grew. Mea culpa; you can leave early if you want to. Because this is a longer-than usual post, I thought I’d provide the bottom line up front: The Lee factory crimp die is a good thing. It works. It holds bullets in place better, it improves chambering, and it improves accuracy.
Now, the rest of the story.
For the last umpteen years when loading .38 Special or .357 Magnum ammo I have been using a kluged-up three die set (a carbide resizer/decapper from Dillon, an expander die from Lee, and a bullet seating and roll crimping die from Lee). You can use the same dies for both .38 Special and .357 Magnum; the only difference between the two cartridges is the length of the cartridge case. They use the same diameter bullets (even though it’s called a .38 Special, the bullet diameter of a .38 is actually .357 to .358 inches, just like the .357 Magnum).
The two cartridges on the left are .357 Magnum; the one on the right is a .38 Special. The .357 cartridge case is longer so it cannot be inadvertently inserted into a handgun chambered for .38 Special. Note the slightly longer overall cartridge length on the .357 Magnum cartridge on the left (with the cast bullet) compared to the .357 Magnum cartridge in the middle (with the jacketed bullet).A mixed set of dies I’ve been using for years for reloading .357 Magnum and .38 Special. Note the Lee shellholder marked “1.” .38 Special used to be the most commonly reloaded cartridge in America. Today it’s 9mm. .38 Special was the first cartridge I ever reloaded. The die on the right is the bullet seating and crimping die.
Reloading Gear
I’ve had a few .38/.357 die sets over the years, selling them when convenient as I bought or inherited other equipment. As featured here on the ExNotes blog, I have a 50-year-old Star reloader I use for .38 Special wadcutter ammo (I’ll give you a link for the Star story at the end of this blog). The Star is set up to meter 2.7 grains of Bullseye propellant (that’s a 148-grain wadcutter target load) and it works fabulously well, so it’s a dedicated setup. For all other .38 Special and for .357 Magnum reloading, I load with my RCBS Rockchucker single-stage press. I’ve been using it for 50 years.
My Star progressive reloader. A good buddy gave this to me in rundown, funky, and long-neglected condition. I cleaned it, lubed it, and put in back in service. The Star does a fantastic job on .38 Special wadcutter ammo.Old Faithful, my RCBS Rockchucker single stage press. I load non-wadcutter .38 Special ammo and all .357 Magnum ammo on this press.
Bullet Seating and Crimping
For many years, I seated and crimped my bullets with a simple seating and crimping die. It’s what you see in the illustration below.
I use this die in two steps. First, I screw the bullet seating adjuster deep into the die and seat the bullet to the correct cartridge overall length without crimping the bullet in place. After seating all the bullets, I then back off on the bullet seating adjuster so that it no longer contacts the bullet, and then I screw the die body deeper into the press. The die body has a roll crimping feature that then roll forms a crimp around the case mouth to lock the bullet to the cartridge case.
Lee has an alternative approach for bullet crimping they call the factory crimp die. As a first step, you seat the bullet to the desired depth in the case using the die shown above. After seating all the bullets, you then remove the bullet seating and crimping die from the press and then use the fourth die (the factory crimp die). Here’s what the factory crimp die looks like:
The fourth die, the factory crimp die, does not seat the bullet. Its only function is to apply the crimp, and it does this very well. The idea is that the die is screwed all the way into the press such that it contacts the shellhoder, and then the amount of crimp is set up with the crimp adjuster, which screws into the die body. This die applies a roll crimp on a revolver cartridge (the same kind of crimp as the bullet seating and crimping die described above), but it does so in a much better-controlled manner. The factory crimp die also has a secondary carbide sizer/aligning ring at its lower end, which aligns the cartridge as it enters the case, and holds the cartridge outside diameter to specification values as the cartridge enters and then exits the die. It works fabulously well, and Lee states that this die makes it impossible to buckle a case.
I had .357 Magnum ammo I had previously loaded using the bullet seating and crimping die only (not the Lee factory crimp die), and it chambered with no problem in my Ruger Blackhawk. The Colt Python has a tighter chamber, though, and several of these older reloads would not chamber in the Python. A quick trip through the Lee factory crimp die cleaned up the outside diameters and the rounds chambered easily.
Before and after shots of older .357 loads I reloaded using the bullet seating and crimping die. Some wouldn’t chamber in the tighter Python. The Lee factory crimp die fixed that.
Lee’s Deluxe 4-Die Set
I recently ordered a new Ruger Blackhawk, and I’ve written many times about my Colt Python. With my new .357 Magnum Blackhawk in its 10-day cooling off period, I thought I would get a new set of dies. I like Lee (they give you a shellholder, they are inexpensive, and they do a good job). I had bent the decapping pin on the Dillon sizing die in my mixed set of dies shown above (a primer wouldn’t come out and I forced it). I was able to bend the pin straight, but I figured a man of my stature ought to have a set of grownup new dies. Then I got an email from MidwayUSA showing the Lee 4-die set on sale for $53 and they had free shipping on orders over $49. The Lee Deluxe set includes the factory crimp die. All the planets were in alignment (enter order, buy now…you know the drill). The dies were at my front door a few days later.
The new Lee 4-die Deluxe Set was well packaged by Midway.The Lee dies in my new die set.The Lee Deluxe 4-die set includes a carbidge sizing die and decapper (the die on the far right), a cartridge expander and case mouth flaring die (on the far left), a bullet seating and roll crimping die (second from the right), and the Lee factory crimp die (second from the left). Lee also provides a shell holder and power dispensing spoon. I’ve never used the powder dispensing spoon; I use an RCBS powder dispenser.
The new dies looked great, and I was eager to put them to work.
Bullet Pull and Cylinder Rotation
On revolvers with significant recoil, bullets can back out of the cartridge case when other rounds in the cylinder are fired. This can allow bullets on unfired cartridges to protrude beyond the cylinder face and interfere with cylinder rotation. We prevent this by controlling the reloaded cartridges’ overall length and by crimping. In firing my new Colt Python with ammo I had loaded for an earlier Ruger Blackhawk, even though the bullets were crimped I experienced bullet pull beyond the front of the cylinder. When this occurred, the cylinder would not rotate. These same rounds had worked in a Ruger Blackhawk.
In analyzing the cylinder rotation issue on my new Python, I found several things:
The bullets were not seated deep enough (the cartridge overall length exceeded the maximum spec of 1.590 inches), even though the bullets were crimped in their crimping groove.
The crimp wasn’t strong enough to hold the bullets in place. Under recoil from other cartridges, the bullets were backing out.
The Python cylinder is slightly shorter than the Ruger Blackhawk cylinder. I probably had the same bullet pull occurring on the Blackhawk, but the Blackhawk’s longer cylinder masked it. They might have been backing out on the Ruger and I didn’t know it.
Cartridge Overall Length
Let’s dive into the numbers. The reloading manuals show the .357 Magnum maximum cartridge overall length (COAL) to be 1.590 inches. With my cast bullets crimped in their crimping groove, the overall length was running from 1.607 to 1.615 inches. That put them about even with the front of the Python cylinder. If any bullet pull occurred under recoil, the front of the bullet would hit the rear of the forcing cone and the cylinder wouldn’t rotate. That’s what I experienced with my Python.
The Ruger New Model .357 Blackhawk has a longer cylinder than the Python. The Ruger cylinder is 1.640 inches long. The Internet says the Python cylinder length is 1.552 inches; mine measures 1.553 (which is close enough). Right away, the astute ExNotes blog reader will recognize that the Colt’s cylinder (at 1.552 inches) appears to be shorter than the specification .357 Magnum cartridge maximum overall length (1.590 inches), but it is not. When loaded in the cylinder the cartridge is held rearward by its rim, which sits flush against the back end of the cylinder.
The Python, like most revolvers, headspaces on the cartridge rim. The cartridge rim is 0.060 inches thick.
The .357 Magnum cartridge rim backs the cartridge up 0.060 inches (the rim thickness), which would put the leading edge of the bullet in a cartridge loaded to an overall length of 1.590 inches about 0.023 inches inside the front edge of the cylinder (if I’ve done the math correctly). And I think I have, because when you look at cartridges in the Python cylinder, they are pretty close to the edge of those big .357 cylinder holes. 0.023 inches. Twenty-three thousandths of an inch. That’s not much to play with.
.357 Magnum cartridges loaded in the Python cylinder. At the cartridge’s specified max overall length of 1.590 inches, the front of the bullet is only 0.023 inches away from the forward cylinder face.
Bullet Design and Crimp Location
I examined the bullets I was using. I had crimped my cast bullets in the crimping groove, and I could see that the crimping groove put the bullet face very close to the forward end of the Python’s cylinder. I couldn’t seat the cast bullets any deeper and still crimp in their crimping groove. Hornady’s jacketed 158-grain bullets are no problem; their crimping groove is a lot higher on the bullet.
A 158-grain Hornady jacketed hollow point bullet on the left, and a cast 158-grain bullet on the right. Note how much higher the crimping groove is on the jacketed bullet. This lowers the bullet in the cartridge case when it is crimped, making the cartridge shorter.Two .357 Magnum cartridges with crimped bullets. The cast bullet cartridge on the right has the bullet seated as low as it can go while still allowing a crimp. You can see that the cast bullet cartridge is longer than the cartridge with the jacketed bullet.
Test Objectives
I wanted to test bullets seated and crimped using both approaches (i.e., the bullet seating and crimping die, versus seating with the bullet seating die and crimping separately with the Lee factory crimp die). My testing would evaluate the following:
Bullet movement under recoil.
Accuracy.
Ease of chambering.
The ability to get a good crimp in locations other than the crimping groove.
That last one is important, because as I learned with my Python, crimping some cast bullet configurations in the crimping groove makes the cartridge too long.
Test Ammo
I loaded three test lots. The first was with 15.7 grains of Winchester 296 powder, Winchester small pistol magnum primers, and Hornady’s 158-grain jacketed hollow point bullets. That was my accuracy load when shooting metallic silhouette a few decades ago, so I know it works well. I loaded half with the bullets crimped using the old Lee bullet seating and crimping die (not the factory crimp die), and the other half with the bullets crimped with my new Lee factory crimp die (after seating them with the bullet seating die).
.357 Magnum ammo with 158-grain Hornady jacketed hollowpoint bullets. The 25 on the right were crimped with the bullet seating die; the 25 on the left were crimped with the Lee factory crimp die.A macro photograph of the ammo above. The Lee factory crimp due cartridge is on the left; the bullet crimped with the bullet seating die is on the right.
The second lot of ammo was a group I had loaded several years ago. This ammo had 158-grain cast semi-wadcutter bullets crimped in the crimping groove, 7.0 grains of Unique, and Winchester small pistol primers. That load (7.0 grains of Unique and a 158-grain cast bullet) has been accurate in every .357 revolver I’ve ever shot. I loaded this ammo with the bullet seating and crimping die (not the Lee factory crimp die). I’d shot tons of this load in an older Ruger Blackhawk, but I had not tried it yet in my Python.
.357 Magnum ammo with cast 158-grain semi-wadcutter bullets crimped in their crimping groove. This ammo worked fine in the Ruger Blackhawk, but it had issues in the Colt Python. Although crimped in the crimping groove, this ammo was longer than the .357 Magnum’s 1.590-inch maximum cartridge overall length.
The third ammo lot was similar to the one above (same bullet weight and powder), but I used the cast truncated flat point bullet and I crimped above the bullet’s crimping groove using the Lee factory crimp die. I wanted to get the bullet further back from the cylinder face to prevent cylinder rotation inteference if the bullets pulled under recoil. My concern was that I would be crimping above the crimping groove, on the bullet’s main diameter, and I didn’t know if the crimp would hold the bullet in place.
The cast 158-grain truncated flat point bullet crimped above the crimping groove. This shortens the cartridge overall length. I seated these to 1.565 inches overall length. After crimping, that figure came back up back up to 1.568 inches, still well below the 1.590-inch maximum length spec.The above .357 cartridges in the Python cylinder crimped with the Lee factory crimp die above the crimping groove. These rounds were loaded to an overall cartridge length of 1.568 inches (as shown above), which positions the front of the bullets further back from the cylinder face.
When loading with my new Lee Deluxe 4-die set, I noticed immediately that the resizing operation was much easier. The same was true for the expander die step. Maybe the older dies I had been using were just dirty, but I sure like do the feel of these Lee Deluxe dies.
Some of you may wonder: Why not just trim the brass shorter to a below-spec length? That would move the bullet back, and if I trimmed it short enough it would allow me to crimp these cast bullets in their crimping groove and not risk any cylinder rotation interference. Yeah, I could have done that, but when I trim brass I like to trim it to specification, not something below spec. And I don’t want to have to segregate brass based on trimmed length tied to specific firearms.
Test Results: Bullet Movement
The first test objective was to determine how much bullet movement occurs during recoil using the two different crimping approaches. Here’s how I tested:
I loaded 5 rounds in the revolver.
I took a 6th round and recorded its cartridge overall length, and then I loaded it.
I fired the first five cartridges.
I removed the unfired 6th round and measured the overall length again.
Here’s what I found in assessing the two crimping approaches’ ability to prevent bullet pull:
The results surprised me. The Lee factory crimp die, even when done on the main diameter of the bullet (not in the crimping groove) does a better job holding the bullet in place than does crimping with the bullet seating die. In each test in which the bullets were crimped with the bullet seating die, they experienced recoil-induced bullet movement. That one entry where the overall length decreased by 0.001 inch is probably measurement error on my part.
Test Results: Accuracy
This testing was straightforward. I fired a series of 5-round groups at 50 feet to assess any differences in accuracy.
Here’s what I see in the above results:
With the Hornady jacketed hollow point points, using the Lee factory crimp die resulted in an improvement in accuracy (the group average was 1.637 inches compared to 1.934 inches).
The Hornady jacketed hollow point bullets were more accurate than the cast bullets. That was an expected result.
With the cast bullets, there isn’t much of an accuracy difference between using the bullet seating and crimping die versus using the bullet seating die and then the Lee factory crimp die.
With the cast bullets, there wasn’t much of an accuracy difference between the truncated flat point bullets and the semi-wadcutter bullets.
I wasn’t having my best range day ever (I had a bad cold when I fired these groups). But I think I did well enough to support the above conclusions.
Test Results: Ease of Chambering
I already mentioned this. Lee claims that the factory crimp die will not buckle or distort the case during crimping. My results confirm this. A few rounds that had been crimped with the bullet seating die would not chamber in the Python; after running these through the Lee factory crimp die, they chambered easily. The Lee factory crimp die does a better job for ease of chambering.
Test Results: Crimping Without a Crimp Groove
This is really a subset of the first test objective, in which we evaluated the ability of the Lee factory crimp die to hold bullets in place under recoil. Here, the focus is more specific: I crimped on the bullet’s main diameter, not in the crimping groove, and I wanted to determine if the Lee factory crimp die would secure the bullet in place. As you can see from the data above, it did. When I crimped the cast truncated flat point bullets forward of the crimping groove, they did not move under recoil. The Lee factory crimp die did this well, and it did so without buckling the cartridge case.
The Bottom Line
The Lee factory crimp die is a good thing. It holds bullets in place better, it improves chambering, and with jacketed bullets, it improves accuracy.
If you want to buy a set a Lee dies, or the Lee factory crimp die, or any Lee reloading equipment, Amazon is a good place to shop. Midway is, too. But I usually go to Amazon first.
If you have comments, be sure to let us know in the comments section below. We enjoy hearing from you.
